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I'm new to cycling and just bought my first street bike. I am a an older dirt rider for many years in my late teens and never on street (at least legally!). My question is about the motorcycle safety course. The savings on insurance is minimal and savings would pay for itself in a couple years at best. Plus, having to spend multiple days taking the course has it's time cost as well. So with insurance savings not in the picture, is the course actually a good educator for a beginning street rider if I have some past motorcycle experience(although dirt). I have been told that I will be just as well off practice a bit in my neighborhood first to get a general feel for the bike and then venture out a bit, getting some experience under my belt, but I would like to hear from others. Any recommendations/comments? Thanks.

Scott.

650F is my 1st motorcycle. So it seems obvious msf course should be priority for me, and that's true. But may be just as important for you.

You have motorcycle license? If not, side benefit of some msf courses is that you can use their bikes to take rider skill test that's part of licensing process. Msf bikes will be easier to handle for the slow-speed skills test than a 650F.

Msf course I took was Harley's Rider's Edge course. Cost was $300 ... significant $$$$! But IMO was best $300 ever spent. Motorcycling entails good many risks ... more that I had considered. Course helped to educate what those risks are, to some degree how to mitigate them, and importance of building skills to further mitigate them. I spend time now practicing skills to improve odds I'll use them in emergency ... likely would not be doing that if had not taken msf. Also, there's a way of thinking when on open road that will help avoid getting into risky situations ... msf course provides that thinking education.

There were experienced riders in my msf class. They were surprised how much they learned.

Just some thoughts you may want to consider ..............

The rider course will give you several advantages. You've already mentioned the insurance discount (10% is still 10%). The other was as Michael mentioned. Taking your test during the MSF class is far easier than at the DMV. For starters, you spend two days practicing the very test. The other thing is that you will be on 50-250cc bikes that are not yours. While they may not be the most comfortable sometimes, you don't have to worry about beating your own bike. You will learn in a very controlled manner where you can focus at the task at hand and not worry about traffic. They take you progressively through and fairly laid back. One thing that will be good for you is learning some of difference between dirt and street. Once done with the class (just two days), you go to the DMV, fill out paperwork, taken an eye exam, and then you have your license. To me that was well worth it on it's own, but I really enjoyed the class. Things that you will learn are countersteering, counterleaning, breaking in a corner, quick stops, negotiating obstacles, and slow speed maneuvering. The class is designed to prepare you for the street and how to watch for actual traffic situations. I've never heard from anyone that went through the class and thought it was an absolute waste of time. Just my thoughts.

David

Situation in UK for getting a license seems harsh by comparison.

Step 1. Go to a training centre, spend £120 and take a compulsory basic training course. This must be completed before you can go on the roads. It entitles you to ride with learner plates either on a 125cc machine by yourself or on larger bikes under tuition from a qualified instructor. Covers all basic riding and road rules. There is no exam but you are assessed by the instructor and you must pass his assessment.

Step 2. Go to a licensing centre and take a computer based hazard awareness session and a rules of the road question session. Must pass both. Costs about £75 I think.

Once you've done that you have two options.

You can either :-

Teach yourself on a 125cc bike ( limited to 15bhp ), take a 2 part test doing maneuvers ( emergency stop, emergency swerve, slalom, etc ) at on off road facility ( concrete road ) and an on the road session where an examiner follows you. Pass this and you get a full license restricted to 33bhp for the first 2 years. The test costs about £100 these days I think. 2 years later you can move up to any sized machine.

or :-

Stump up another bucket of money and take a direct access course. You learn with an instructor, generally over 4 days and paying about £500. Most of this is on a bike of 500cc capacity ( I think the restriction is that it must be over 46bhp ). At the end of this you take the same exams as the 125cc rider, but on the bigger bike. Pass that and you have a full license without the 2 years 33bph restriction.

If in the first two years of having a license you transgress the law ( speed, dangerous driving, all sort of others ) twice you loose your license and start again.

I passed mine quite a while ago and some things have changed since then, but I did ride for two years on a GS500 restricted to 33bhp. It was a great learning experience. However I found riding a 125cc/15bhp machine frightening as it was so lacking in power.

Absolutely, situation in UK for getting a license is more difficult by comparison.
Wonder if comparative accident statistics us/uk indicate the extra uk training has a payoff on the road.

I would definitely like to know the answer to that one.

To be honest most of the crew i ride with anyway do not even have a license even though the process in Texas is pretty simple. I took the MSF class in New Mexico and the entire class was the state test. Once i passed the class (on a 200cc) i just took the MSF card over to the DMV and they gave me a license.

In texas the class will cover the road course but you will still have to take the written exam to receive a full license

Not sure how you'd be able to compare. After all road conditions and traffic levels would need to be similar for it to be valid. Would you look at just accidents or at injuries? Accidents per year per 1000 riders might be a reasonable thing to look for?

i would guess you would have to look at everything to really compare. riding experience at time of accident. events surrounding the accident ie being stupid on the bike or someone stupid hitting your bike. like you said the road coniditions, the materials used to make the road, depth of the road itself (surprisingly that really makes a difference) and of course the good ole "was it your time to go" clause.

I guess that is something we will have to wait for an IVY league school to gather all the data and write a report that we read in the news before we will ever know

Am also a UK rider and quite an ancient one as well. Spent time on smaller bikes years ago and did not get full licence until I re - entered the bike game last year. I went through the whole process posted by Pashby above - taking option of last two parts on a 650CC BMW. I failed one part of this last stage and had to retake. I bought a training package which cost circa £1,000 (includes bike hire, test fees and about 4 days of instruction by instructor including rider to rider radio). The process took me from about 2 months in total and as you can see - a load of cash.

Does it make me a better rider?? This is a hard one to answer.

I think it is important to go through some training but the main issue in UK is training to get the licence - then you start to learn how to ride a bike.

I would guess that a load of bike accidents over here are to do with crowded roads and excessive speed. Mix the two at any stage in your riding and you will end up in bad shape - possibly due to exceeding safety paramaters due to head overriding good sense. If you are doing 100mph then the chance of hitting the idiot pulling out from side road or ending up on wrong side of road on fast bend are increased significantly.

There is a saying in the car driver training world which I once worked closely with and it goes something like - "it's all about attitude and you can't change attitude while the driver is changing gear" which is why some prefer "shock" tactic traing in classrom style rather than training in car just to get a licence pass. This form of training is designed to really make you think hard about what you are going to do when you get behind the wheel (or on the bike) - and what the consequences of stupidity or lack of judgement could be.

In the UK once you have got your licence you can opt for further training which is specifically designed to heighten your safe riding skills. The best ones are provide by police bike riders.

I think you can draw your own conclusions about all - I would go for safety training every time.

+1
Another saying used after passing our brc (beginner rider's course) is "you are now qualified to ride at slow speed in a big empty parking lot".
There's alot of truth to that saying.
You do, however, have reasonably sound foundation on which to build real-world skills.
And what's reviewed/taught in the CLASSROOM may ultimately be more valuable than what was taught on the PRACTICING RANGE.

But, IMHO, neither CLASSROOM or PRACTACING RANGE education will be worth much if not used daily and expanded on.
End of epistle ..............

Well, went to sign up for the course and none of them are happening in my area because they cannot get 4 people to justify the instructors. But, I was recommended an instructor for private lessons. Privates going to be MUCH better with faster progression and covering more skills training than the group lessons provide. $40 bucks/hour. Instructor says 8 hours and I'll have the skills and knowledge I need and can go out and get some experience putting these skills to practice. Plus, he comes to me, we train in a local church parking lot on MY bike, not a rebel 250.

Scott.

Here in Oregon, January 1st the laws became more strict for getting a license to ride a motorcycle. Now it's pass the Basic Riders Course offered by Team Oregon, or you don't get a license with a motorcycle endorsement. It used to be one could take a written test and a riding test with the Oregon Dept. of Motor Vehicles and upon passing, get the license. No more. All classes are from Team Oregon.

So, ya cannot get insurance for riding a motorcycle in Oregon unless you have a motorcycle endorsement on a driver's license.

- - -
The BRC class time has lots of information about how to ride safely, plus the students (many have riding experience already), they throw in personal experiences relating to what's being taught at the time. I learned a huge amount about riding from the books by David Hough (Proficient Motorcycling, and More Proficient Motorcycling). In fact much of David's safety information is taught in the BRC classes. Read his books a couple of times.

It's true, the BRC prepares a person to ride around in a parking lot, slowly. But the head knowledge is priceless, giving a rider a head start to road wisdom. Yeah, you can eventually learn everything that is taught in the BRC all by yourself, and you can save the money for something else. I enjoyed the class. It gave he a head start "in my head."

I would suggest taking the safety course. For me, I took the intermediate course which was $125 in Washington state and I save $30 per month on my insurance. The course was easily paid off in a few months and is the gift that keeps on giving.